People with chronic pain often struggle with it for years while doctors scour their bodies for the cause. But are we looking in the wrong spot? For some of us, could an answer — and the solution — actually be in our brains? To find out, we talked with Professor Lorimer Moseley, Dr. Javeria Hashmi, and psychologist Alan Gordon.

Here’s a link to our transcript: https://bit.ly/3jHBvYb

To learn more about Alan’s therapy, check out his new book, “The Way Out.”

This episode was produced by Nick DelRose with help from Rose Rimler, Meryl Horn, Michelle Dang, and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Our executive producer is Wendy Zukerman. Fact checking by Erica Akiko Howard. Mix and sound design by Bumi Hidaka. Music written by Bumi Hidaka, Peter Leonard, Emma Munger and Bobby Lord. Thanks to the researchers we got in touch with for this episode, including Professor Akiko Okifuji, Dr. Emma Guymer, Kajal Patel, María Villarreal Santiago, Dr. Massieh Moayedi, Dr. Peggy Compton, Dr. Ramakrishnan Mani, Sheren Gaulbert, and Dr. Yoni Ashar. And special thanks to Joe Cohen, Nolan Gardner, Sarah Nguyen, Liwen Hu and Will Everett.