BRITTANY: Hey Samplers, just a quick warning before the show: this episode contains some adult themes and language, so proceed with caution!
BRITTANY: Hi, I'm Brittany Luse, and welcome to Sampler, the show where we play you carefully picked moments from podcasts that you just have to hear. And speaking of podcasts you just have to hear, today we have some very popping, very amazing special guests from one such podcast—
Everyone please welcome Tracy Clayton and Heben Nigatu of Buzzfeed's Another Round.
TRACY and HEBEN: What up what up. Yayyyyy.
BRITTANY: Yeah applaud yourselves. Applaud yourselves. Soour show, which I love so dearly, is like a really fun variety show that also has these amazing interviews with super awesome guests like Melissa Harris-Perry, David Simon and even Valerie Jarrett. It's cultural criticism. It's pop culture, and of course, you give every guest booze.
BRITTANY: You have super fun games.
HEBEN: Mhmm I like to think so.
TRACY: That I usually lose.
BRITTANY: Well actually that brings me to our first clip.
TRACY: Ooh is this a clip of me losing a game? From our own show.
BRITTANY: No this clip, this is actually a clip from your show where Tracy you are quizzing Heben.
HEBEN: Oh no.
TRACY: Yay so it's not one where I lose.
BRITTANY: Yes, Tracy you quizzed Heben on southern idioms.
TRACY: Oh yes, one of my shining moments on the show I have to say. Because I'm always — I always lose at Heben's games. I was like, OK, what is something that she is guaranteed to lose. I love you but you had to I had to make something that you had to lose.
HEBEN: Facts yeah no I know nothing about southern slang.
BRITTANY: So let's hear it.
TRACY: This game is called Guess the Southern Phrase. I just made up that title. I don't know. I'm going to give you some multiple choice questions. You pick the word that you believe completes the Southern phrase.
HEBEN: Oh god.
TRACY: Ok? Ok. When someone is really really joyous, they are said to be happy as a pig in what? Heat? July? Heaven? Or slop?
HEBEN: I don't even know how to start eliminating these.
TRACY: You got to do it. You got to work it out.
HEBEN: I don't know all animals in heat seem like they're not they're happy but they're not.
TRACY: Is that your answer?
HEBEN: I'm going to go with in heat.
TRACY: Wrong. Buzz. Ehh.
HEBEN: Bah I don't even know why I chose that by my own logic.
TRACY:: No it was like… the correct answer is slop. Happy as a pig in slop.
HEBEN: That should have been an easy one I'm sorry.
TRACY: I started with the easy one. We're going to turn it up. When someone is really confused it is said that they are confused as a blank in a fan factory.
HEBEN: OK, I'm already out. Why are we in a fan factory?
TRACY: Is it a breeze? A fart? A flower? Or a skunk?
HEBEN: You definitely made up fart.
HEBEN: They're confused?
TRACY: Confused as a blank in a fan factory. Oh man your face right now.
HEBEN: I'm so stumped. I feel like the skunk would be like thrown off by the smell you know? Like where's that coming from. I'm in a fan factory. It could be anywhere. I don't know. I'm going to go with skunk.
TRACY: That's very impressive logic but it is wrong. It's fart. Confused as a fart in a fan factory.
HEBEN: Are you kidding me? You didn’t make that up?
TRACY: I did not make that up.
HEBEN: Oh my god. What does that mean?
TRACY: I mean, imagine a fart in a fan factory. It's like, “Woah where am I going. So many fans. I want to go this way but I can't get over there. Oh my gosh.”
HEBEN: I can't follow this train of thought. I don't know what a fart is thinking.
BRITTANY: How did that defeat taste?
TRACY: Yes how did it taste?
HEBEN: I still honestly as I was listening to it was like, shit, I already forgot the answers. I've internalized nothing from this loss.
BRITTANY: I'm not gonna lie, I actually did not know the last one.
TRACY: The fart in a fan factory?
HEBEN: It still doesn't make sense.
BRITTANY: It actually — I thought it was a breeze in a fan factory. Like a breeze is like why do I need to be here? I'm in the fan factory.
TRACY: Well I think that a breeze would also make sense but that's just not the saying. The saying is fart in a fan factory. Fart's trying to like get out it's being pushed around by all the breezes.
HEBEN: But how did it get there?
BRITTANY and TRACY: Maybe one of the workers one of the factory workers had egg salad that morning.
BRITTANY: That logic I did understand.
HEBEN: For some reason I just imagined an empty fan factory.
BRITTANY: Like the fart just walked into a fan factory, like well here I can pick up some fans.
HEBEN: Well yes actually that is what I imagined.
BRITTANY: To amplify my message.
HEBEN: If we’re anthropomorphizing farts, I think we can take some logic liberties.
TRACY: You know what I'm not mad.
BRITTANY: But that's why I love you guys' show because
HEBEN: We take logic liberties?
BRITTANY: No. Well, because of that, but also like, you know I -- for those of you can't see any of us and have never listened to the show before I'm a black woman.
TRACY: Oh my God me too.
BRITTANY: And you guys are too.
HEBEN: Oh my God same.
BRITTANY: But you guys like even in that one segment it's like your two black women in America and you have completely different backgrounds and cultural touchpoints in something that a lot of people assume that a lot of black people have in common.
BRITTANY: Is like their slang and like their way of talking and like their way of speech and you know I understand most of what you said Tracy but I still didn't understand the fart in the fan factory. I have a lot of family in the South, from the South, I did not understand that whatsoever. But that brings us to the first clip from another show we're going to play today.
BRITTANY: So somebody that I think we all like who is a southern woman --
HEBEN: Is it Beyonce? It is Beyonce.
BRITTANY: See I could have been like an American.
HEBEN: It's Beyonce.
BRITTANY: It's Beyonce. Breathing human with ten toes.
HEBEN: I believe that's Beyonce.
TRACY: Who else could it be?
HEBEN: Sorry to ruin your intro. Set up the clip, girl. Set up the clip.
BRITTANY: OK so Beyonce, unless you've been living under a rock, you know she has a brand new video out for her song Formation. I would love to play it for you right now but we would probably be sued. But you know anyway she has this great new video, that celebrated a lot of the southern lifestyle--including language… and when a new Beyonce video or song comes out there are two people in the world who I am dying to hear talk about it. Those two people are internet personalities and podcast hosts… Kid Fury and Crissle. Who host a show called The Read. Another fantastic podcast, they’re on loudspeakers network. I am a Beyonce fan I know you guys are too. They are at least ten fold, I would say, our combined love.
TRACY: Yeah. Accurate.
BRITTANY: And they talk about it on a weekly basis and when Beyonce dropped her recent video formation they had basically like an emergency recording session.
HEBEN: Makes sense to me.
BRITTANY: Here is a little bit of their reaction to the Formation video.
KID FURY: I think it is definitely making a lot of statements and some of them are political but overall it's about love and about us enjoying who we are and having a good damn time.
KID FURY: She's not on this record talking about and you know what? Trayvon Martin and do you know what George Zimmerhail… and you know what Donald Trump and you know what fist in the air. It's about dancing and loving all these different -
CRISSLE: Who we are.
KID FURY: Loving who we are and you girls so here to talk about is this what she's going to be doing for the Black Lives Matter movement?
CRISSLE: This is just so, it's so capitalist really at the heart of it. It's just all about money and how are you a black woman telling other women that the only way to win is through financial gains?
KID FURY: Exactly.
CRISSLE: Just your shut your bougie ass up bitch. Maybe it just was not for your bitch ass and that's fine. As a country ass black girl whose family is from Texas, from Louisiana from Alabama from Mississippi who grew up in that place and knows that culture and that life like that it just felt so good to me to see somebody else especially somebody like fucking Beyonce — the biggest star in the whole goddamn world — to put out a video saying you know what yes girl your little country ass. These little black girls that everybody wrote off and nobody ever thought you was going to be shit and you just come from a little dot in the middle of the fucking plains girl. This shit is for you.
KID FURY: She's saying you know what girl I too have hot sauce in my bag and you shouldn’t feel no kinda way about it because you never know when you're going to need some. You can't be out here in the streets slipping. Again Beyonce trying to tell you bitches if you stay ready you don't have to get ready. I don't have that Creole background or the Texas and Louisiana thing but you know what I do have? I got damn love and respect for hot sauce and I too enjoy corn breads and collard greens.
TRACY: Yes, church.
HEBEN: That is so beautiful.
TRACY: That was the best sermon I ever heard in my life.
HEBEN: I too have hot sauce in my bag. I believe Martin Luther King said that.
BRITTANY: Where were you when Formation came out?
HEBEN: Oh my God. I was in Trinidad on vacation.
BRITTANY: Oh my God for Carnival?
HEBEN: In carnival.
BRITTANY: Oh my god.
HEBEN: It was incredible. And we finally get some wifi and we’re like oh my God this is not a drill! So we gathered, and I could not think of a better way to usher in this video with like three black women sitting in Trinidad by a hammock.
BRITTANY: Oh my god.
HEBEN: Enjoying the breeze and enjoying Beyonce sunshine.
TRACY: Oh I’m so jealous.
BRITTANY: Where were you?
TRACY: I was on my black-ass couch, not in nobody's Trinidad.
BRITTANY: You were better than — I was helping someone move. I was sitting outside watching a U-Haul and I was reading Twitter and I was like, oh my god, and I just stopped I literally stopped. I could hear it playing from another house like on my block.
TRACY and HEBEN: Wow.
BRITTANY: It reminded me — this is terrible, I'm going to hell for this — it reminded me of when I was living in DC the day that Barack Obama got elected. And you could just hear people cheering from inside their apartments like yeahhh. Like that's how it felt where I was like outside in the middle of the street in February and I could hear --
HEBEN: That’s incredible.
TRACY: That's beautiful.
HEBEN: When we got to the Red Lobster line we all actually gasped… Like she took our breath away.
TRACY: We were talking about it very very briefly on our show and Heben made the astute observation that Beyonce is for black girls. Everybody can enjoy her but she is like for us. I stand by that statement.
HEBEN: So do I.
BRITTANY: I agree.
TRACY: And when the song came out, I was like we should take this a little bit further and say Beyonce is for black southern girls. Because, listen, when she was like, yeah, I'm Beyonce, I'm married to Jay-Z. I can buy and sell your entire generation. However I am still a ‘bama. Listen I'm still country and like the accent is just like going off every which way. I was like it's OK for me to be me right now. It's OK. It's OK.
HEBEN: Yes, Tracy.
TRACY: It was beautiful.
BRITTANY: Well —
HEBEN: I like that she self-identified as a Bama.
BRITTANY: No way.
HEBEN: Yes girl.
BRITTANY: That's like - that used to be like the wildest…
TRACY: It was an insult.
BRITTANY: I was going to say especially in north it's like an insult and so when she was just like mix a negro with that creole like a Texas bama.
TRACY: Yeah not just a Texas a bama but a Texas bama, OK? I believe she said make a Texas bama?
BRITTANY: That's perfect.
TRACY: We speak the same language.
BRITTANY: Well let's take a quick break — but first to recap for you listeners, so far in the show we have heard from Heben and Tracy’s podcast Another Round, and the ode to Beyonce and hot sauce came to us from The Read. More from Heben and Tracy after the break— and I can’t wait to see what you guys brought to play for me.
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BRITTANY: Welcome back to Sampler. Today I am talking to podcast hosts Tracy Clayton and Heben Nigatu from the show Another Round which is on Buzzfeed. OK so we talked about some of like the playful things you guys do on your show. So you have like games. You have segments. You ask people their opinions about squirrels but I want to talk about like the meat of you guys' show which is I believe the interviews and a perfect example of this and episode I absolutely loved you guys interviewed with Anil Dash.
HEBEN: Yo. I love him.
TRACY: Wonderful. That was my favorite interview.
BRITTANY: Yeah he was super awesome. So to catch the rest of you guys up. Anil Dash is a tech entrepreneur and a self-described activist focused on diversity in tech and he's also like a blogging pioneer—he’s been blogging probably since I was in elementary school. In this clip, you guys are talking about the casting of Aziz Ansari's Netflix series Master of None, and, Heben, the clip starts with a question from you.
HEBEN: So we're kind of stuck when you're very happy to see yourself represented on TV and especially in a good way, but you also often feel like you can't really criticize or at least not in mixed company you know what I mean?
ANIL DASH: Yes
HEBEN: For example the fact that in Master of None Aziz Ansari's character Dev only dates this white woman. White women specifically have such a monopoly on the romantic comedy genre it gets so frustrating and honestly just straight up boring to see that same dynamic again. They're not the only women who date and have problems dating.
TRACY: Also they're not the like only fun, funny, quirky, goofy, weird you know what I mean? But they're the only ones who are permitted.
ANIL: Well I mean…
HEBEN: I'm not saying Aziz has to cost like an Indian girl but there's literally so many women who struggle with dating.
ANIL: Well no it's interesting because he was thoughtful enough to say there's a lead character that is a black woman that is a whole person that's on the show but not a romantic lead and one of the big challenges for the South Asian community in the US in general is how we play with white privilege like as long as we keep our heads down and we don't talk about it we get in to a certain degree. Like we can get into tech but we're not going to get promoted but we can get in.
HEBEN: Yeah that's actually something I wanted to ask you about so you work a lot around issues of diversity in tech but you've also talked about how Indians are over-indexed in tech.
ANIL: Yeah totally so and just kind of close the loop on the Master of None piece is like this one of the things that Indian dudes will signal is you know we can get white women… and like for the most part now there have been exceptions
HEBEN: Tracy's sipping her drink now.
ANIL: It's literally Kermit with the tea. But for the most part their dads will not bristle when the girl brings us home for the most part. I've had some exceptions but mostly not. And so like there's some part of that which is you write this like aspirational you know here's the flawsome version of me on TV and I got a white girl… like I think that's part of it. And then in tech I always look at like who's in the tech companies Google and Facebook and Yahoo versus like say population of California because they're all in California. What's interesting is the proportion to proportion of Californians who are white is actually about even but of course proportion of tech employees at those major companies who are black is like percent. Latinos like less than two percent, like rounding error. And the entire gap in between is made up of Asian mostly Asian men. Right? So we over-index that if hiring were equitable pushes out really just black and Latino and native folks right? Like that's sort of it. So we're complicit in this anti-black structure and don't ever talk about it. Because like the CEO of Google is Indian. The CEO of Microsoft is Indian. The CEO of Adobe is Indian like you go down the list outside of Xerox there's no black women in these rooms. Zero, right? Until like the 60s and the 70s where immigration changed and Indians could come here, there hasn't been any sense of common cause between issues that Indian and South Asian folks face in the US and what black folks face. And it's like we're here because black people got us the right to be here. Period. I mean that's who changed the civil rights movement so like Indians could exist in society. South Asian community doesn't talk about it. They're terrified of it and I think part of it is our position is so precarious — we don't even have a TV show — so if we speak up what happens to us because our history is so short. Like my dad is about as long as you can be in this country and he's been here 50 years and so people are like they could just send us all back. That's happened before like in the 1900s when they were making these laws like Chinese Exclusion and all that stuff. Like they just lynched entire towns of Indians we're like now there's no Indians here anymore in the northwest until it was like the ability to actually remove an entire community was a thing.
HEBEN: Anil is so smart.
TRACY: He was a really easy interview.
HEBEN: Was the best like the best case scenario for an interviewer where your guest is like let's loop back these two points and connect them. What?
BRITTANY: Well also that you guys totally didn't get in his way you know what I mean. Because you started off talking about Master of None and like white female romantic leads and then you ended up with him like and then when they were lynching Indian people in the northwest United States and I was like yo.
HEBEN: Yeah our show is sort of an emotional roller coaster.
TRACY: Much like our lives.
BRITTANY: What do you think you do to kind of get people to open up in that way?
TRACY: Let us not understate the importance of having liquor. But I think the two of us are very disarming and I think it being two black women interviewing this person who was probably only interviewed by white men, like it just brings like a different tone and a different energy sharing stuff about yourself helps somebody else to open up and I don't know how to not share stuff about myself.
BRITTANY: I have the same problem.
TRACY: You know let me tell you about me. Let me tell you what I went through.
HEBEN: And also we don't it's such an informal setting I think because we're not concerned with sounding like a proper interviewer. You know? And it's just like listen, we're sitting here with bourbon, we want to have to talk about this really smart thing. You don't have to use big SAT words to do it, you know? And it's just like friends hanging out, even if we just met.
BRITTANY: That's how it always feels.
TRACY: Oh good.
HEBEN: That’s dope.
BRITTANY: No it's super super - because something I notice when people talk about your show or when I like read about it is like a lot of people who make and consume podcasts are white. And so when they talk about your show they talk about it like it's this thing that's like pulling back a curtain in a way but I feel like it's interesting that it feels that way to them because when I hear it I feel like you guys are having conversations that like I would have. You know what I mean? Or that I like I have had or that I am having and I think it's awesome that you can kind of like operate on both levels.
HEBEN: Yeah I always remind people like we're dope, don't get that wrong. But this is so common. Mad black girls are out here having these same conversations. Maybe try hiring them.
TRACY: Bloop or at the very least listening to them.
BRITTANY: You could actually repeat that.
HEBEN: We slay to quote Beyonce.
TRACY: Nice callback.
BRITTANY: Well, um, I think it’s actually time for you guys to play something for me.
TRACY: I’m excited.
BRITTANY: I’m excited.
HEBEN: Thank you ma'am so my clip comes from the Reveal podcast. It's from the Center for Investigative Reporting. I had never heard of the podcast before I heard this episode. It's called Pumped on Trump. So it's basically they're trying to figure out who are Donald Trump supporters?
BRITTANY: I'm curious.
HEBEN: Like he's having these rallies with like 10,000 people. Who are these people that excited about a political rally? So this clip comes to us from the producer Ike Sriskanderajah. He's interviewing bikers like dudes on motorcycles so they're at a Trump rally in Myrtle Beach and he's talking a little bit about how he feels guilty for training himself to avoid guys like this.
IKE: Part of the reason is something that happened to me a few weeks ago. I was eating at a roadside place and there was a group of bikers there and when I left to get on my bicycle one of them followed me outside. He said hey ISIS and told me if he was riding next to me he'd kick me off the road. Then he said he was just messing with me and made me shake his hand. A classic bully move. So I'm reluctant to ask this group my next question about Trump. And so what about some of the more controversial things that he's like banned Muslims a temporary ban on Muslims and
ANTHONY LEGGIO: I agree with that 100 percent. Banning Muslims… I mean…
IKE: Anthony Leggio is a New York-born biker who now owns a small business in South Carolina.
ANTHONY: He's not banning everybody. He's just stopping it until he gets a grip of what's going on. I'm not saying all Muslims are bad. There's a lot of Muslims that are wonderful people. We just have to figure out who's who.
IKE: Another biker named “AT” from Myrtle Beach agrees.
AT: There’s always going to be people that hate us. I understand that but listen we're not over there trying to chop people's heads off. We don't want that shit going on here either. So for that we need a strong man who's going to take care of all that.
IKE: I talked to another strong man who looks and sounds like a professional wrestler and got the question I got asked a lot on this trip.
MALE VOICE: Where are you from sir?
IKE: It's kind of hard to hear over all the engine noise.
So he asks me where I'm from. And I start where I live now in Oakland CA then go back to where I was born, Wisconsin but I know where this question's going.
MALE VOICE: What's your what is your nationality.
IKE: Oh I'm Sri Lankan.
MALE VOICE: What is that.
IKE: My family is Sri Lankan which is a small island nation in the Indian Ocean. So he latches onto India.
MALE VOICE: Oh India we're cool with India.
IKE: We're cool with India which is a nation of mostly Hindus as long as it's not Pakistan.
MALE VOICE: I like India, I don't like Pakistan. We’re cool with the Indians.
HEBEN: Woah. What? Good lord.
BRITTANY: First of all Ike I would never I would not do that.
HEBEN: He's so brave. So there's been a lot of physical violence towards brown people at Trump rallies. I would never do this. This is incredible reporting.
HEBEN: So I feel like we've been making way too many jokes about Trump. Like this has gone on long enough. And I feel like white people especially y'all gotta handle this. Like we can laugh from a distance because we need to be at a distance.
BRITTANY: But all of his supporters were like bracingly honest with Ike. They didn't feel the need to like necessarily be polite towards — although I guess I could see how him being like Indian is OK but if you were Pakistani that would be a major issue. Maybe that’s—
TRACY: Right but I accept you sir.
BRITTANY: Maybe that's maybe that passes for southern gentility.
HEBEN: There are some people who are a little more hesitant. But for the most part I think what's interesting about this episode is there's so much coded language that Trump uses or Trump fans use and here there's like a little more to the point about what they mean. So they'll talk a lot about political correctness and then when Ike follows up and is like can you tell me more about what are the kinds of things you wish you could say.
BRITTANY: They just say it.
HEBEN: They just say it.
HEBEN: And it's really the logic of like, uh, take our country back. They are not hiding that they feel like they've lost power and feel incredibly threatened by every brown person.
BRITTANY: Well this guy just yelled hey I- he just yelled ISIS
TRACY: And then made him shake his hand.
HEBEN: What kind of bully are you?
BRITTANY: That's so - why would you…
HEBEN: Please remember I was polite when I bullied you.
BRITTANY: Like what? Like wha—
TRACY: I'm joking so it's fine.
HEBEN: Good day sir.
HEBEN: Well we should shout out out to Reveal for this very revealing episode.
BRITTANY: Yeah shout out to Ike and let's stay safe.
HEBEN: Yeah stay safe bro
TRACY: Yeah stop going to Trump rallies. You don't have to do that.
HEBEN: You don't have to do this again.
BRITTANY: Well you guys we've been on a trip today.
HEBEN: Oh, I know I don't want to go.
TRACY: It's been so fun.
BRITTANY: I know thank you guys so much for coming. This was like awesome. This was like the best.
HEBEN: Brittany you're the best.
BRITTANY: You're the best. So Heben and Tracy came to us today from BuzzFeed’s Another Round, which is on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and wherever podcasts are found. If you wanna find their show on Twitter or Facebook, you can find them at AnotherRound.
HEBEN: We are another round everywhere. So if you like joy and fun.
TRACY: Oh and you can also follow us individually on Twitter. Heben is heavenrants heaven like the sky and I am brokeymcpoverty because I'm broke.
HEBEN: Yep that's us guys.
BRITTANY: So today you have heard clips from our guests Heben and Tracy's show Another Round. We heard Beyonce fire from the Read, And the Pumped on Trump clip came from the Center for Investigative Reporting's Reveal podcast from PRX.
Stay tuned after the credits from a clip from our next show.
This episode was produced by Chris Neary. Matthew Nelson, Rose Reid, Sarah Abdulraman and myself. It was edited by Caitlin Kenny and Annie-Rose Strasser. Our theme music was made by Micah Vellian and our ad music was made by Marc Phillips. Other original music in the show was written and performed by Peter Cocoma. Special welcome to our brand new engineer Matthew Boll who mixed this episode. Sampler is a production of Gimlet Media.
Thanks to our sponsor Squarespace. Squarespace is the easiest way to create a beautiful website, portfolio, or online store. Squarespace features easy-to-use templates and 24-7 support. When you decide to sign up for Squarespace, make sure to use the offer code SAMPLER to get 10 percent off your first purchase, and to show your support for our show. Squarespace… build it beautiful.
Thanks to our sponsor Blue Apron. For less than 10 dollars per meal, Blue Apron delivers all the fresh ingredients you need to create home-cooked meals: just follow the easy step-by-step instructions. Plus, each meal can be prepared in 40 minutes or less! No more last-minute trips to the grocery store to get something for dinner tonight. Right now, you can get your first two meals for free at Blue Apron dot com slash “Sampler." That’s BlueApron.com/Sampler. Blue Apron. A better way to cook.
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Next week on Sampler is all about relationships, and we’ll share with you a meet-cute for the ages.
DANYEL: Well the main thing that was different is that he had taken the cornrows out of his hair, which was really working for me in terms of cuteness. I mean I love a good cornrow.
ELLIOT: Who doesn’t love a good cornrow?
DANYEL: but it was really not working for Elliot.